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Dyalòg sou rebwazman an(n) Ayiti
(premye pati - septanm 2004)
Mornes haïtiens, 1983. Photo Franco & Fabio Biaggi. |
KORESPONDAN #1: Li enpòtan nan tan sa a pou nou pale plis sou afè rebwazman an. Nou te pale de sa oparavan kote ou te di solisyon pwoblèm nan dwe kòmanse ak refòm agrikilti a, mwen klèman dakò avèk ou.
E. W. VEDRINE: Bon, mwen pale sou sa deja atravè atik mwen yo ki disponib sou entènèt la ak nan nouvo roman mwen an Season of drought in Haiti (Saison sèche en Haiti ) ki gen pou soti avan lontan.
KORESPONDAN #1: Men kounyeya nou dwe gade pwoblèm rebwazman an kòm yon priyorite. Sa fè dezyèm fwa nan ane a ke lavalas koze anpil moun mouri nan peyi a.
E. W. VEDRINE: Afè lavalas sa a, hm ! Bon, globalman sa ta dwe YOUN nan faz refòm agrikilti a si tout fwa ta vin gen gouvènman serye ki ta panche sou sa. Kòm mesye yo se monte sou pouvwa ki enterese yo plis pase rezoud pwoblèm peyi a, donk se sa k fè peyi a kontinye ap sibi tout kriz sa yo.
KORESPONDAN #1: Nou dwe jwenn yon solisyon pou kapab rezoud pwoblèm sa a.
E. W. VEDRINE: Solisyon an se nan men moun ki sou pouvwa li ye, pa nan men endividi ni nan men ti òganizasyon, ONG. Toutotan gouvènman pa pran an men pwoblèm peyi a pou kòmanse jete baz enfrastrikti nan tout nivo, n ap kontinye pale jouk Lan 3000 epi Ayiti ap rete jan l ye a. Mwen trè pratik nan tout sa m ap fè kote m toujou montre teyori ak pratik alafwa. Mesye lidè yo konnen pwoblèm peyi a. Men kesyon ke n ka poze se: èske yo vle eseye solisyone yo (ak tip mantalite n ap gade yo)?
KORESPONDAN #1: Kòm mwen te mande ou oparavan si ou pa konnen oken òganizasyon.
E. W. VEDRINE: Afè òganizasyon, ONG, patati patata... se pa sa ki kle koze a men li enpòtan pou gen òganizasyon. Nou bezwen gouvènman ki pou monte epi kòmanse jete baz enfrastrikti nan tout nivo, gouvènman ki montre yo vle travay nan kad devlopman Ayiti, ki envite pèp la ak dyaspora a (de vrè zèl zwazo a) nan gran konbit sa a, vin nan radyo dyaloge ak pèp la chak mwa pou wè posiblite yo (sa k ka fèt, piti kou l ye); se sa yo rele lidèchip . Nou bezwen yon gid , yon antrenè pou gide nou sou tout ang. Lè pa gen gid, pèp la gaye e bagay yo gaye tou. Nou menm endividi nou kapab jis dyaloge, pale an gwo de pwoblèm yo pase nou viv yo chak jou men se moun ki gen rèn pouvwa a nan men yo ki ka fè, defè e refè yon seri bagay. Globalman, nou ka di: volonte politik li, yon gabay li poko egziste lakay anpil lidè ayisyen.
KORESPONDAN # 1: Sou koze rebwazman an, repons ou an pa t espesifik (klè), men ta sanble pa gen oken òganizasyon ki egziste e ki ap travay sou domèn sa a.
E. W. VEDRINE: Repons mwen toujou klè men sanble se ou k ta mal entèprete l. Wi te gen kèk òganizasyon (si w al fè rechèch, lajan ki gaspiye pase lè w ap dirije yon ONG fò k gen literati k fèt, fòk gen bri zèl sapat ki fèt) men lè leta ki alatèt pa pran anyen oserye donk pa gen gid, se lave men siye atè, fè laviwonn dede. Sa nou bezwen se yon leta konsyan , youn ki ka pale ak pèp la, dyaloge ak li (nan lang li) tanzantan, di l men sa k ap eseye fèt, envite l kolabore pou l wè l jwe yon wòl enpòtan, edike l sou tout pwen, jete yon seri baz, ouvè dyalòg pou wè sa k ka fèt nan yon tan kout epi fè yon jan pou leta k ap vini annapre kontinye travay ki ta kòmanse yo. Anpil fwa nan istwa Ayiti, lè yon gouvènman ale, nou wè se kraze yo kraze sa l fè, toujou gen yon dechoukay. Nou p ap viv nan epòk koupe tèt boule kay ankò men nou nan venteyinyèm syèk, yon syèk eklerab. Mwen pa dakò ak sa (kraze brize lè yon lidè ale), fòk lidè politik ki sou teren an, edikatè, jounalis, moun save, tout moun ki ka fè eklerasyon edike pèp la sou sa pase se peyi a menm yo detwi lè sa fèt, se bagay ki te ka ede yo detwi. Nou ka pran yon dènye egzanp semèn avan 29 fevriye 2004, tout deblozay, kraze brize ki te genyen. Bagay ki pou ede pèp la epi l ap detwi yo. Poukisa? Li pa t gen lidè pou di l non, sa pa bon; donk li soufri anfennkont, men yon soufrans ke li menm kreye.
KORESPONDAN #1: Nòt sa a kontinye diskisyon ke nou t ap fè sou dòmen rebwazman an avèk enpòtans li. M ap tann repons ou.
E. W. VEDRINE: An(n) atandan, al li Sezon sechrès Ayiti (premyè vèsyon an - http://www.potomitan.info/vedrine/sezon.pdf) pase lòt vèsyon yo (alman, fransè, italyen, japonè, olanndè, panyòl, papyamennto, ris, swahili) ap baze sou vèsyon anglè a ki pi long, ki gen plis detay tou.
(fen)
(dezyèm pati, 1e oktòb 2004)
DOUMA: Védrine, mwen suiv entèvansyon w o sijè Ayiti, sitou pledwaye w fè pou agrilkiti, ak enterè.
E. W. VEDRINE: Mèsi dèske w ap suiv sa de prè.
DOUMA: Menm lè mwen dakò otosifizans alimantè se yon kondisyon sine qua non , sepandan mwen rete konvenki chimen devlopman Ayiti se pa agrikilti.
E. W. VEDRINE: Bon, nou lib pou n panse jan pa nou vle, twoke lide - tout sa fè pati pati demokrasi . Men pou mwen, agrikilti a se ta youn nan kle devlopman Ayiti. Depi n piti yo di n ke Ayiti se yon peyi agrikòl; reyalite a sèke se agrikilti ki ta sous ekonomik gwo pousantaj moun an(n) Ayiti depi lontan. Kijan nan yon peyi kouwè Ayiti si tout fwa ta vin kèk gouvènman serye, ki gen nen nan figi pral fè yon bagay nan devlopman epi pou ta kite agrikilti dèyè? Kisa ki fè majorite peyizan kite pwovens yo? Kisa k fè anpil peyizan ayisyen pral koupe kann Sendomeng depi digdantan? Lontan se te Kiba. Donk ou pa panse si te gen bonjan agrikilti an(n) Ayiti ke moun sa yo pa t ap rete travay nan peyi a epi vwayaje kou touris? Mwen pa kwè peyizan nou yo parese ni tou se pou plezi y ap riskte vi yo nan pran kanntè, okontrè yo damou pou aktivite travay latè. Men èske yo jwenn sifizamman tè pou travay? Dlo pou wouze tè? èske yo jwenn zouti pou travay latè tout bon? èske nou ko gen yon gouvènmen ki pou di: bon, nou pral achte yon seri zouti, traktè, angrè ... anfen tout sa ou te ka panse nan akrikilti modèn pou ede peyizan (epi yo ta peye lè rekòt bon). Pa bliye tou, nan agrikilti , «elvay bèt» antre ladan. Mwen mansyone enpòtans pou retou kochon kreyòl yo pase se yon konbinezon matyavèl Etazini ak gouvènman popetwèl ane 80 yo ki detwi yo, yon fason pou te detwi ekonomi peyizan epi mete Ayiti nan yon sitiyasyon depandans ekonomik, yon fason pou fè FMI* kontan. Lè pa gen gid, bagay yo gaye tou. Wi, nou pa t gen yon gouvènmen ki pou ta di: bon n ap panse a ki mezi k ka pran pou konbat lafyèv pòsin nan olye pou n ta detwi tout ras kochon kreyèl yo . Donk Tonton Sam di, lidè popetwèl ayisyen apwouve.
DOUMA: Pito devlopman Ayiti dwe pase pa rechèch e devlopman, e edikasyon e fòmasyon nan ekoloji e byodivèsite.
E. W. VEDRINE: Poudi nou ta renmen al fè yon lòt 200 ane ap fè rechèch devlopman pou Ayiti? Adye wi dan! Se kòmsi majorite ayisyen Ayiti pa ta konprann pwoblèm peyi a (yo avèg), kriz y ap viv chak jou Bondye mete. Mwen envite w li
http://www.potomitan.info/vedrine/agriculture.pdf
http://www.potomitan.info/vedrine/ravaje.pdf
http://www.potomitan.info/vedrine/sezon.pdf
Si m ta vle pèdi tan pou m ta ba w referans rechèch ki fèt deja, donk ou ta pral di: genlè lidè ayisyen soud sou koze a . «Rechèch e devlopman» si m pa twonpe m, la a sanble ou ta vle mansyone teyori & pratik ? Donk teyori yo fèt deja an tèm rechèch men nan kad pratik (devlopman), kesyon n ka poze, se: kilès ki pral mete yo an(n) aplikasyon? Repons lan se leta ki konsyan . Lè n di leta (ak kalifikatif sa a dèyè l), sa enplike yon dal bagay: yo konnen pwoblèm yo, yo konnen kritik yo, yo konnen enfliyans pwoblèm yo sou peyi a, yo pral jete yon seri baz ke gouvènman annapre dwe suiv, yo pral konsyantize pèp la, yo pral edike popilasyon an . Pa panse mwen kite edikasyon dèyè nan gran deba sa a - pa ditou! E pa bliye mwen se youn nan edikatè ki sousye de pwoblèm edikasyon an(n) ayiti e ki depi 15 lane ap eseye pote kolaborasyon m
http://www.potomitan.info/vedrine/index.php
atravè liv mwen ekri, liv mwen voye fè libreri kado, liv mwen fè pwofesè / chèrchè kado, dokiman mwen layite sou entènèt la, patisipasyon m nan plizyè fowòm (ayisyen kou etranje ki an rapò ak Ayiti), prezantasyon m nan konferans, entèvyou mwen bay... pase mwen kwè tou nan aksyon endividyèl - chak moun dwe pote kontribisyon pa yo tou nan devlopman Ayiti menmsi y ap fè yon travay kolektif
alafwa), donk mwen toutjou wè edikasyon alagrandefouyo nan tout bagay pou Ayiti. Edikasyon pa vle di sèlman «konn li, konn ekri, pale franse» jan anpil Ayisyen atribye l pafwa. Men bon sans tou nan tout bagay.
DOUMA: Rezon an senp e evidan paske se nan chèche rezoud pwoblèm natirèl ki jounen jodiya koze gwo dega pami majorite mas pòv yo,
E. W. VEDRINE: Kijan ou esplike sa?
DOUMA: Nou ap rive devlope e transfòme konesans e pratik an teknoloji.
E. W. VEDRINE : M pa fin wè klè nan fraz sa a non. Petèt ou ka fè yon rale sou li pou m wè egzaktteman kote w ye.
DOUMA: An verite, jesyon anviwonman se sèl kritè Tonton Price-Mars* di ki detèmine entèlijans yon pèp.
E. W. VEDRINE: Bon, Jesyon pa jis rete l fèt konsa. Gen yon seri mezi ki dwe pran e leta an premye responsab sa, epi mete sou pye mwayen pou edike popilasyon an sou sa. Mwen menm etan ekriven, chèrchè, kritik ... mwen pa ka jis kondi yon djip atravè Ayiti pou m al di moun: pa koupe pye bwa, pa fè chabon, pa lage fatra la a, pa kaka nan dlo moun ap bwè, plante bwa tout kote, plante pyebwa ki pote fri, plante pit nan tè arid yo, plante vetivè tèl kote, fè pepinyè gayak, fè pepinyè kajou , anfen tout bèl bagay nou te ka reve pou pwoteje anviwonnman an. Sèdike, se vre nou ka dyaloge sou pwoblèm yo etan endividi, nou ka brase /twoke lide, nou ka vin sou fowòm pou fè majorite moun pran konsyans de pwoblèm epi yon jan / yon lòt wè kisa k ka fèt pou pote tout revandikasyon sa yo bay leta .
DOUMA: Jodiya, lè n ap gade nan ki eta malpwòpte e delabreman Ayisyen ap viv, nou andwa konkli: lanati plase yon defi sou chimen Ayisyen .
E. W. VEDRINE: Mwen menm, mwen pa ta rann lanati responsab (mwen pa di pou otan ou rann li responsab nonplis) men, mwen kwè ke li lè, li tan pou koze sa yo pale (nan radyo, televizyon, sou fowòm, nan dyaspora a, òganize gwoup pou fè seiminè tou, pou montre yo preyokipe de pwoblèm yo). Se pito yon defi pou leta Ayisyen. Pase lè n gade, nou wè politisyen aysiyen fè 10 sou dis nan pale anpil, 0 mare nan ren pou fè aksyon pozitif.
DOUMA: Retabli ekilib ant anviwonnman e nou menm osnon sibi dezas, denigreman e tansyon sosyal.
E. W. VEDRINE: Yon bèl fraz! E tout sa m di yo se yon fason pou n pran konsyans pou fè sa, e leta an premye kòm majò jon. Nou wè ase dezas ki sot ane sa a: premyèman dezas politik, dezyèmman dezas natirèl (men dezas natirèl sa a soti nan travay ke leta ayisyen pa t fè - kisa m vle di pa sa? Èske yo siveye kote moun ap bati / kote moun pa ta dwe bati / kanalizasyon pou fè dlo al fè wout yo nan lanmè pou pa touye moun? M pa konnen si w jete yon koudèy sou vil Fonvèrèt (sou entènèt la); men se nan yon vale vil la konstwi epi pa gen okenn kanalizasyon pou bay dlo wout li. Kesyon n ka poze, se: èske leta aysiyen pa ta koupab nan koze sa a, hm?
(fen)
Dialog on reforestation in Haiti
(First part - September 2004)
E. W. VEDRINE
CORRESPONDANT #1: It's important at this time that we talk more on the reforestation issue. We've talked about it before where you said that the solution of the problem should start with a reform in agriculture. I certainly agree with you.
E. W. VEDRINE: Well, I talked about that before through my articles that are available on-line, and in my new novel, Season of drought in Haiti, that will be published soon.
CORRESPONDANT #1: But now, we should look at the problem as a priority. That's the second time of the year that heavy flood has caused the death of many people.
E. W. VEDRINE: This flood issue (as we call it “lavalas”), hm! Well, globally, that should have been ONE of the agriculture reform phases if ever there will be a serious government who would lean on that. But since these guys are just interested in ascending to power more than solving the country's problems, so that's the reason why the country continues to suffer from all these crises.
CORRESPONDANT #1: We should find a solution to be able to solve this problem.
E. W. VEDRINE: The solution lies in the hands of those who are in power, not in the hands of little organizations or NGO's. As long as the government does not take the problem of the country seriously in order to start implanting some bases for infrastructure at all levels, we will continue to talk ‘til the year 3000 and Haiti will remain the way it is today. I am very practical in all that I am doing where I always show theory and practice at the same time. These guys who are leading know the country's problems. But the question that we may ask is: do they want to try to solve them (with the type of mentality that they have)?
CORRESPONDANT #1: I have asked you before if you know some organizations.
E. W. VEDRINE: The issue of organizations, NGO's, this and that… are not the real issue, but it's important to have organizations… We need a government who comes to power and who starts implanting the bases for infrastructure at all levels, a government who shows that they want to work toward the development of Haiti, one who invites the people and the Diaspora (the two real wings of the bird) to this great collective work, one who comes to the radios to have dialog with the people each month in order to see the possibility of what can be done, no matter who little it may be; this is called leadership. We need a guide, a coach to guide us at all angles. When there's no guide, the people spread out and things also spread out. We, individuals, can just have dialog, can talk globally about the issues because we live them daily but it's those who hold the rein of power who can do whatever they want, who can do a series of things. Globally speaking, we can say: political will , something that has not been existed yet among many Haitian leaders.
CORRESPONDANT # 1: On the issue of reforestation, your answer was not specific (clear), but it would seen that there is no organization that exists and which are working in this domain.
E. W. VEDRINE: My answers are always clear, but it seems that you've misinterpreted that one. Yes, there were some organizations (if you research on that, money that was being wasted because when you are heading an NGO there must be literature, unimportant noises or what we call “bri zèl sapat” in Kreyòl) but when the government who is leading does not take anything seriously, so there is no guide; it's ling washing the hands and wipe them on the ground, keep on turning around. What we need is a government who is conscious , one who can speak with the people, who can have dialog with the people (in their native language) from time to time, one who can tell them here is what we are trying to, one who can invite them to collaborate, to show them that they play an important role, one who can educate them at all angles, one who implant a series of bases, one who can have open dialogues to see what can be done within a short period of time and do in a way that the next government continues the works that were in progress. Many times in the history of Haiti when a government is gone, we see that it's just destroying what the former has done; there is always a “dechoukay” (getting rid of) somehow. We are no longer living in a “koupe tèt boule kay ” (chop the heads and burn houses [of the oppressor]) era but we are in twenty first century, an enlighten century. I don't agree with that (getting rid of everything that a leader has done when this one is gone); there must be political leaders on the ground, educators, journalists, educated people, all those who can help educating the people on that issue because it's the country that they are destroying when doing that; they are destroying things that can be helpful to them. We can take a last example of the week before February 29, 2004, all these chaos, destructions that were going on, things that could help the people and they were destroying them. Why? They did not have a leader to tell them: this is not good. So, they suffered at the end, but a suffering that they themselves have created.
CORRESPONDANT #1: This note continues the discussion that we had on reforestation with it's importance. I am waiting for your answer.
E. W. VEDRINE: In the meantime, read “Sezon sechrès Ayiti” (the first version- http://www.potomitan.info/vedrine/sezon.pdf) because the other versions (German, French, Italian, Japanese, Dutch, Spanish, Papiamento, Russian and Swahili) will be based on the English version which is longer and which has more details also.
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Emmanuel W. Védrine
E. W. VEDRINE CREOLE PROJECT, Inc.
P.O.B. 255962
Dorchester, MA 02125-5110 (U.S)
evedrine@hotmail.com, e_vedrine@yahoo.com