Interview: Emmanuel W. Védrine with Eddy Le Phare

Emmanuel W. Védrine

This interview was conducted on Radio "Ayiti Fokis" (September 22, 1996 in Boston). Host: Eddy Le Phare. Guest: Emmanuel W. Védrine. An interview based on Gramè Kreyòl Védrine (Védrine's Grammar of Haitian Creole)

E. Le Phare : Well, I want to say good morning to all the fans who are listening to the "Miwa Marasa" program, especially fans of "Ayiti Fokis". As we announced on "Miwa Marasa" in the third part of the program, this is an interview with Emmanuel W. Védrine, who is in the studio with us today. We are asking everyone who is listening, especially those who know about the Creole language, those who would like to know more about the Creole language, those who know where the Creole language is, those who would like to know where the future of the Creole language is: come closer, don't disconnect because we have with us today one of the people who is very active in Creole language issues and we will be discussing a Creole language grammar book which he has just authored. I want to say also that this person has written several books before this grammar. Among these works, are:

Dictionary of Haitian Creole Verbs With Phrases And Idioms, Ide pou kreye yon High School Ayisyen prive nan Boston, Materyèl Edikatif pou Bileng Ayisyen, Di yon vèb tire yon kont, Poetry in Haitian Creole, Ti istwa kreyòl: Short stories in Haitian Creole, Un stylo international, Yon koudèy sou pwoblèm lekòl Ayiti, Koze lanmou, 23 poèmes en français et en haïtien, Peyi m rele Ayiti, Dis powèm sou lanati, Petit lexique du créole haïtien, N ap aprann pwovèb ayisyen, Kri pou liberasyon, Manyèl pou anseye seminè kreyòl ayisyen...

Throughout these works, he demonstrates an interest not unlike that of others who would like to see a future wherein the Creole language moves forward. Good morning, Védrine!

E. W. Védrine : Well, I would like to say good morning to you, Eddy, and I want to greet everyone who is listening in to the "Miwa Marasa" program.

E. Le Phare : Well, you know the reason already why you are here: a chance to talk about this grammar that you've just published. And among the things we are going to do today, we will touch on these two aspects: The first aspect is to find out from you the reason behind all this work. The second aspect is to ask you why you went about this project the way you did, rather than some other way. We will enter directly into the grammar and we know that, beside all the other efforts that are being done by others on behalf of the language, we now have this writer who has come up with this grammar and, in addition to this, we think that this grammar constitutes a major building block for all that the Creole language can become. First of all, can you explain to us this philosophy, where did it come from?

E. W. Védrine : Well, to begin, I must tell you that there are many people who publish works which you can analyze, works that touch many grammatical aspects of the Creole language. So, I research a lot on that. There are many writers who have already brought their own contributions. If we go back in history, we can start with Jules Faine, a very popular philologist and Haitian lexicographer, whose research resulted in numerous works being published on the subject of the Creole language, thereby making a significant contribution to the science of Linguistics. One of the important books published by Jules Faine was: Philologie créole (1936), which won the prize "Prix de l'Académie Française". Jules Faine continued to write other great books on Creole, such as Le créole dans l'univers (1939). After that, he published many other works through newspapers in Haiti. He started working on dictionaries also. Finally, not long ago, with the help of the linguist Gille Lefèbvre, together with a group of specialists from "Université de Montréal", "Édition Lemeac" (in Canada) published the manuscript of a dictionary that Jules Faine wrote before his death (1958), Dictionnaire Français-Créole . In this case, we can see many doors that he opened up for Creole research, so that others who succeed him can continue doing such research. After Jules Faine, we can talk about Suzanne Comhaire, who contributed a lot to Creole Linguistics. She published an important book entitled Le créole haïtien: morphologie et syntaxe . After that, we can talk about Pradel Pompilus, a literary critic, linguist, and Haitian grammarian, all at the same time. One of his works, La langue française en Haïti, served as his doctoral dissertation at "Université Sorbonne" (Paris). He has also published many linguistic works we can analyze that have grammatical aspects; for example: Contribution à l'étude comparée du créole et du français à partir du créole haïtien, Manuel d'initiation à l'étude du créole, with many other works. We can mention Albert Valdman, a French linguist who has been doing research on Haitian Creole for a number of decades. Valdman has published many books, book chapters, and articles on Haitian Creole. Many of them deal with grammatical aspects of the Creole language such as: Ann pale kreyòl (1988). He is also a lexicographer who published a great dictionary: Haitian Creole, English, French Dictionary (1981). He is a specialist in Creole and French Linguistics. We can mention researcher Ernst Mirville (Pyè Banbou), who has played an important role as director and founder of "I.L.A.P" (Institut de Linguistique Appliquée de Port-au-Prince). Mirville has been teaching Creole for a very long time and he has published about twenty books on Creole, including books for French speakers who are learning and doing research on Creole. We have researcher Jean Targète, who published Advanced Grammar of Haitian Creole (1972). We can mention Pierre Vernet, a Haitian linguist who contributes a lot through his research on Creole. He wrote many books and theses on Creole at "Université Sorbonne". Among Vernet's works, we can mention Technique d'écriture du créole haïtien (1980), which is a very important guide on the writing system of the Creole language and at the same time, a rich book with "grammatical aspects". We can mention Yves Dejean, a Haitian linguist who has been contributing a long time in Creole, a researcher who has published many books on Creole and in Creole, which can be adapted for literacy and Bilingual Education programs. In these books, Dejean touches on many grammatical aspects of the Creole language. We can mention Alix Renaud, a Haitian poet and novelist, who has been living in Canada for a long time. Recently, Renaud published a book entitled Pale Kreyòl . Although this book is written for French speakers who are learning Creole, it covers many grammatical aspects of the Creole language. We have Edner Jeanty who has published many books on Creole. One of Jeanty's books which covers many grammatical aspects is Let's learn Creole . Jeanty is an author who does at the same time a good job on the "oral culture". When we are talking about oral culture for example, we can mention "riddles", "proverbs"... A book on Haitian proverbs which Jeanty published (together with Carl Brown) is Pawòl granmoun: 999 Haitian proverbs . We can mention researchers such as Michelson Hyppolite, who has done a good job on Creole literature. One of his books, Pwovèb ayisyen aplike, is published in three languages (Creole, French and English). He also published books that deal with Creole Linguistics and that cover many grammatical aspects of the language. There are many dissertations that Haitian and non-Haitian researchers have already written on the Creole language and, from time to time, other research results continue to be published on Creole, research dealing with linguistic or grammatical aspects of the language. I think all these books which I have mentioned are very important if we are researching Creole and check out the references. So, we see the development of the Creole language when we make this kind of analysis of great research that is being published on Creole from time to time, which adds to the prestige of the Haitian language.

E. Le Phare : Ouside all this philosophy, can you tell us exactly what decision pushed you to write this grammar? I know that you have talked about these people who have come before you, a series of people whose published research you have read. Do you see in the context of your research of the work they have been doing that which set the stage for you to think about a different kind of Creole grammar?

E. W. Védrine : When you do research, you come up with something new. There are people who call this "invention". Whether in science or literature, you can't just say that you have invented something without first consulting with others or without checking what others have already done. Although you may come up with something new, you always base your new invention or research on what already exists. That is to say, after looking at the works I have already mentioned by those researchers who have contributed so much, I saw that there was something still missing. I saw that there wasn't a Creole grammar written in Creole and which covers all the grammatical aspects of the language, a textbook which could be used to teach Haitians in their own language. This is the reason why I did this work and did it differently from those other authors I have mentioned.

E. Le Phare : OK, you did your work differently by publishing this grammar, but another little aspect: different compared to what?

E. W. Védrine : Well, it means that this grammar, a book of 354 pages, covers almost all grammatical aspects of the Haitian language and it is written in Creole. Most of the other books that I mentioned were written in French. They serve French speakers or Haitians who speak French and who are researching Creole, Creole Linguistics, or grammatical aspects of the Creole language. But many of these books cannot be used as textbooks to teach the finer points of Creole to non-French-speaking or non-English-speaking Haitians. They tend to be research-oriented books for non-Haitians who want to know more about the Creole language. In my research, I analyzed the orientation of all this past research and then I came up with a new kind of research: a textbook to be used in Haitian schools (mostly at high school or college level). At the same time, however, Gramè Kreyòl Védrine is a very advanced book, which can serve as a reference book for researchers and teachers.

E. Le Phare : If I am not mistaken, I believe you mention something somewhere in the book that deals with people who are already specialized in Creole. Can you explain the difficulty a person who is not specialized in Creole might encounter in Gramè Kreyòl Védrine ?

E. W. Védrine : Well, in terms of "difficulty", I don't believe a Haitian is going to encounter any problems. No, I don't think so. I explain everything in this book. Whatever the learning level of the person, he or she will get something out of this book, even if this reader is not a linguist or grammarian. I make sure that the reader feels comfortable. Everything is explained step-by-step. As I've already mentioned, however, how much one gets out of this book depends on the learning level of the person. For example, the analysis a non-linguist or grammarian will make will differ from that made by any of these two specialists.

E. Le phare : Well, as you know, when an author writes an introduction to a book before the first chapter begins, great importance is attached to what he is saying. Inside this book, between the introduction and the first chapter, where you talk about the Creole language, you give a little taste of what you call "Bay kreyòl la elan" (Push the Creole language). Contained within this thesis, I think, is a philosophy, suffering, and, at the same time, a vision. Can you explain the context that made you come up with such a thesis? Because within it, I think there are many details.

E. W. Védrine : What philosophy lies behind this thesis: "Bay kreyòl la elan"? This philosophy means to push the Creole language. When I am talking about "elan" (push), I refer to doing positive things to move things forward. I believe that in the development of all languages, a sequence of actions must be taken. For example. I mean organizing seminars, discussions, and conferences to discuss the language and to exchange ideas; publishing articles, having radio and T.V. programs. I believe all of these activities enter into the term "elan". As we consider this thesis, I have selected some articles that some Haitian authors have published in the monthly magazine Edikatè à l'Educateur or in some Haitian newspapers. I can mention names such as: Michaëlle Auguste ("Yon reyinyon pou bay kreyòl la plis fil"). Carrié Paultre (" Boukan, jounal moun ki fèk aprann li kreyòl"), Deslande Rincher ("Kèk konsèy pou bay kreyòl la jarèt nan peyi dAyiti"), and Mango Dyesifò ("Ann ede kreyòl la fleri"). Dyesifò is a well-known Haitian researcher as a result of his former weekly series, "Lang manman nou" (Our native language), which was published in the Haitian newspaper, Haiti Progrès . I believe Dyesifò has done a nice job on "etymology" and "philology" of the Creole language. All these examples of the works of these researchers can serve as models of how we can push the Creole language and what we can do to continue pushing it.

E. Le Phare : The second aspect, as I see it, is that CPAL (Protestant Committee of Literacy and Literature) entered the picture, which perhaps served as a model for the work you are doing. What importance does that have in Gramè Kreyòl Védrine ?

E. W. Védrine : Well, as I have already mentioned, Carrié Paultre was the author of the article: " Boukan, jounal moun ki fèk aprann li kreyòl". CPAL was born out of this article, where Paultre says:

1. Pifò moun ki pale kreyòl pa t fin dakò pou sèvi ak lang lan nan edikasyon pèp la.
2. Pa t prèske gen monitè pare pou montre granmoun li an kreyòl.
3. Sant yo pa prèske jwenn kantite liv ak kaye yo te bezwen pou travay la.
4. Lè moun te fin aprann li, yo pa t prèske jwenn anyen pou li.

Pou legliz potestan yo ka jwenn solisyon, yo mete tèt ansanm epi yo monte yon komite ki rele an fransè: "Comité Protestant d'Alphabétisation et de Littérature (CPAL).

[1. The majority of the people who speak Creole did not completely agree to use the language in the education of the people.
2. There were almost no instructors to teach adults to read Creole.
3. The centers could not obtain enough books and notebooks needed for the work.
4. After the people learned how to read, they could find almost nothing to read.

In order for the Protestant churches to find a solution, they got together to form a committee that is called in French: "Comité Protestant d'Alphabétisation et de Littérature (CPAL).]

He continues in the article to show the decisions which some Protestant churches began to make in order to find a solution to this problem. Paultre also mentions how the newspaper Boukan was created. I believe Boukan was a very important newspaper for the development and the literature of the Creole language, as it used to focus on subjects such as literacy, agriculture, health, etc... Things that are important for Haitians to know. Furthermore, they had a radio program through "Radyo Limyè" entitled "Konesans se richès" (Knowledge is Wealth). It was a program that enlighted many Haitians, especially our peasants, who make most use the Creole language.

E. Le Phare : In general, we have seen and heard how Védrine came up with this grammar. Now, I am going to enter directly into the grammatical aspects and, as I forewarned you, while you are talking, at the same time we will make critiques of the things we think -- according to us -- you have done better. As a linguist and grammarian and as the author of this book, we are going to talk together with you about these things. And, if you will permit me, let me make one little remark about your grammar: In that all languages are presented almost the same way, we can see that you talk normally in the first chapter, where you touch on many grammatical aspects of Creole: orthography, sounds, vowels, consonants, graphemes, contractions, apostrophes, hyphens, punctuation marks, accents, capitalization, small letters, italics, quotations... This work, I think, took you a lot of time. And there are many other things that you also accomplished, without doubt. First, can you tell us how long it took you to write this book?

E. W. Védrine : Well, when I work on a project, I always set up a deadline (I limit my time). I ask myself the question: How long will it take me to get the job done? It took me one year to complete this book, putting at least six hours daily into its research.

E. Le Phare : And from all that we can already see, I now can advance a first critique. In many instances, I see that you refer to "many people". For example, in the first chapter -- where I would have thought that it would be directly the work of only Védrine; instead, you refer to Yves Dejean, whom you introduce in this chapter. Why do you choose another author outside of yourself to embrace his value in this chapter?

E. W. Védrine : Well, as I said already, when you are doing research, there already exists a series of people who have already done a series of things. So, you must analyze what they have done and, at the same time, give them all the credit which they deserve. Yves Dejean is a researcher, who is very important to know if you are doing research on Haitian Linguistics. Well, there are also many other important researchers in this realm; but, since you mention Yves Dejean, I will talk about him. Who is Yves Dejean? He is a Haitian linguist who spent many years in New York, researching and publishing research on Creole Linguistics and Bilingual Education. We already know his works in the development of Creole materials for Bilingual Education, whereby many other Haitian teachers benefit from his works. Actually, Dejean is living in Haiti, where he continues his works, always in the field of education and research. One of his articles, which echoed very loudly regarding the official Creole orthography system, is: "Ann kase koub òtograf kreyòl la". The literary magazine Sèl mentions in this regard:

"Atik sa a te parèt nan nimewo 358 (26 oktòb 1980) nan jounal LPSS . Malerezman, yo te chanje tit la, yo te mete 'jouke kreyòl la pi ro' e yo pa t di se Iv Dejan ki ekri l..."

[This article appeared already in number 358 (October 26, 1980) in the newspaper LPSS . Unfortunately, they've now changed the title to "jouke kreyòl la pi ro" and they do not credit Yves Dejean for having written it...)]

I believe it is important when we are doing research to give people credit where they deserve it. Sometimes you will find people who are "so-called researchers" who are trying not to mention people who have contributed to their research. They are aware of it when they do that, but this is a way for others to glorify in them only. This is the reason why -- in all the research I publish -- one always finds references to other people. I always give credit to everyone who merits it, a way to recognize their indirect contribution to my work. It is for this reason I republish Dejean's article in Gramè Kreyòl Védrine . I believe it is a good article that sheds a lot of light on the new Creole orthography system and it is a direct reference.

E. Le Phare : Well, I am going to continue with a very important question. We know that right at the heart of Gramè Kreyòl Védrine there is something which, according to how you discuss it, I believe you would like to talk about. I am speaking of "kreyòl swa". I think you have a lot to say about that.

E. W. Védrine : Well, if you take "kreyòl swa", for example, you can see a sort of "variation" or "dialectal variation" that exists within the Creole language, something which is called dialect . The word "dialect" comes from the Greek language and it is related to the word "language". But, when one speaks of dialect now (in linguistic terms), one refers to variations within a language (for example, pronunciation and semantics), which apply to a particular region of a given country. In the same way, one can also speak of "dialects" which exist within the spoken Creole language. "Kreyòl swa" is a term which some linguists have already researched. For example, Professor Albert Valdman has done a presentation on it at the Seventh Annual Conference of "H.S.A." (Haitian Studies Association), which was held in Milwaukee, Wisconsin (Oct. 13, 1995). And even before that, a section was published by Valdman in this book: La Republique Haïtienne (Gerard Barthélemy et Christian Giraud, Éditions KARTHALA. Paris, 1993), where Valdman says:

Le 'créole swa' n'est pas seulement une question de voyelles arrondies. Il s'agit de structures syntaxiques. C'est aussi une rhétorique. C'est aussi une façon de concevoir les choses. Le problème que je pose n'est pas celui du créole parlé, c'est celui du créole écrit. Ce sont deux choses différentes. Les gens peuvent parler swa et écrire rèk, or il est évident que ceux qui ecrivent en créole rèk ont fait cet effort d'adaptation. Nous n'avons malheureusement pas d'observations du comportement langagier des paysans, mais je suis sûr que leur façon de parler varie selon les circonstances. Ils ont un parler formel, un autre informel, tout une gamme. Je crois qu'il serait important pour connaître le cas haïtien, d'observer la totalité du comportement langagier des paysans si, éventuellement, on veut que le message écrit qui leur est destiné soit compréhensible. Je crois qu'il y a des questions fondamentales qui n'ont jamais été posées dans la querelle de l'orthographe: pour qui écrit-on, à qui sont destinés ces textes? ( La Republique Haïtienne, pp. 117).

['Kreyòl swa' is not a question of 'rounded vowels'. It is a question of syntactic structures. It is a question of rhetoric. It is a way to understand or grasp things. The problem that I am posing does not involve spoken Creole; rather, it involves written Creole. These are two different things. People can speak swa, and write rèk, for it is evident that those who write kreyòl rèk have taken the additional effort of adaptation. Unfortunately, we have not observed the complete behavior of the peasants' language; but, I am sure that the way they talk varies according to circumstance. They have a formal way of talking; another, informal: all constituting variation. I believe it to be very important to better understand the Haitian case, to observe the total behavior of the peasants' language, if eventually one wants a message written for them to be understood. I think there are important questions that have not been raised in the discussion of orthography: For whom does one write? For whom are these texts written?]

We can say that "kreyòl swa" is a remarkable variation among people who are bilingual (in particular, natives of Port-au-Prince). They have a tendency to use a series of words or pronounce them with a French accent, do what is called in Creole "ti bouch pwenti"... It is a variation that is also close to "kreyòl fransize". For example, they can put "R" where it should not be. The problem that is presented now is a question of "normalization". In whatever the language, "dialectal variation" always exists. In the case of "kreyòl swa", some Haitians can see it as a prestigious dialect, which is common among natives of Port-au-Prince and which can be at the same time considered to be an "idiolect".

E. Le Phare : A linguistic aspect, which I see you touching upon, called "philology". Can you talk a little bit about that?

E. W. Védrine : It is a study based on the history of a language or Historical Linguistics. For example, tracing the roots of these languages: French, African, Indian (language of native Americans), Spanish, English and all the history behind the country where the Creole language took birth (speaking of Haiti).

E. Le Phare : Another aspect found in this grammar has to do with "dictionaries", something upon which you touch and something that I think plays a great role. Can you tell us about the essence of this aspect upon which you touch in Gramè Kreyòl Védrine ?

E. W. Védrine : Well, I wanted to present a work wherein I could include everything which serves as research to be analyzed within the Haitian language from all angles. That is the philosophy behind this book. I think that in the development of a language, dictionaries and grammars play an important role. They are two tools to help the language to progress. What a dictionary does is collect words that exist in a language, group them, define them (depending on the type of dictionary). In this case, a dictionary can be defined as a collection of words and idioms that are arranged in alphabetical order, with all their definitions listed to bring in additional information or to clarify these words for the reader. A dictionary can also take the form of a "lexicon" (a word that can in many cases be used as a synonym of "dictionary"). There are many dictionaries and glossaries that have already been published on Haitian Creole. Among them are:

1974. PELEMAN, L. C. Diksyonè kreyòl - fransè

1974. FAINE, Jules. Dictionaire français - créole

1976. BENTOLILA, Alain. Ti diksyonè kreyòl - fransè

1981. VALDMAN, Albert. Haitian Creole - English - French Dictionary

1989. JEANTY, Edner. Diksyonè kreyòl - anglè / Creole English Dictionary

1989. FREEMAN, Bryant. Diksyonè Òtografik Ayisyen

1989. HYPPOLITE, Michel-Ange. Atlas kò moun

1989. FREEMAN, Bryant. Dictionnaire inverse de la langue créole haïtienne

1989. FREEMAN, Bryant. Dictionnaire préliminaire des fréquences de langue créole haïtienne

1989. FREEMAN, Bryant. Diksyonè medikal kreyòl (Bryant Freeman)

1990. VILSAINT, Féquière. Pictorial Dictionary of Haitian Creole

1991. VILSAINT, Féquière. Creole - English Dictionary

1991. VILSAINT, Féquière. English - Creole Dictionary

1992. VILSAINT, Féquière. Diksyonè anglè kreyòl

1992. VEDRINE, Emmanuel W. Dictionary of Haitian Creole Verbs With Phrases And Idioms

1992. VILSAINT, Féquière. Idiomatic English - Creole Dictionary

1993. RINCHER, Deslande. Diksyonè Kreyòl - Anglè - Fransè Manman Penmba

1993. TARGÈTE, Jean & URCIOLO, Raphaël G. Haitian Creole - English dictionary

1994. VILSAINT, Féquière & HEURTELOU, Maude. Diksyonè Kreyòl Vilsen

1995. THEODORE, Charmat. Haitian Creole - English / English Haitian Creole Dictionary

1996. VEDRINE, Emmanuel W. Petit lexique du créole haïtien

1996. FREEMAN, Bryant & LAGUERRE, Jowel. Haitian - English Dictionary Dictionary

As you look at this list, you can see that there are many dictionaries that have already been published on the Creole language. I think it is important for this type of research to continue, to make collections of words that can still be used orally but which have not yet been written. That is to say, if we don't write them, the future generations won't find them. So, this is why I believe it was important to mention "dictionaries" in this grammar. A very important dictionary was recently published: Diksyonè Kreyòl Vilsen . The authors, Féquière Vilsaint and Maude Heurtelou, have done a great job where, for the first time in history, someone has finally produced a monolingual dictionary of Haitian Creole. It is a great work and, at the same time, it serves as a model upon which future Haitian lexicographers can build.

E. Le Phare : Well, before we finish, I must also say that you came up with other terms in this book, such as "euphemism", another aspect of the language. The example you give is so clear to me that whoever consults this section of Gramè Kreyòl Védrine will feel at ease in the way you explain this term. As author of the book, I would like you to touch this term again for listeners. For example, you come up with an illustration in a scene you wrote about where there is a quarrel between a fish vendor and a person who is buying fish. The buyer realizes the fish is too expensive, she doesn't want to buy it, and the fish vendor reacts where she says: "It's not fish you needed... You know very well what you wanted and you know where to find it!". If we are looking through our colloquial language, you can see what the lady means. In the same chapter, along with "rhetoric", you came up with three poems. Is it to praise the poets or what importance do they have in this section?

E. W. Védrine : Well, first, in talking about "euphemism", it enters what we call "rhetoric" in a language. When we talk about rhetoric, that's a way to speak or to speak well. When we talk about euphemism, it is a rhetorical figure or a term to avoid the brutality of a word; that way, we can use another word to substitute for a word which appears to be vulgar, a way to soften the message we are trying to communicate. As you can see in the dialogue, there is a quarrel that starts. The two people could have used many obscenities, the way we can hear them in the streets or in the market place, but the language is controlled where this doesn't happen. In this case, we can analyze "euphemism". For the poems, I come up with an illustration of three: "Sen Valanten" (St. Valentine), a poem by Patrick Sylvain; "Fanm Marabou" (" Marabou women", one of the poems in my poetry book entitled Koze lanmou (A collection of love poems in Creole); and "Malè yon bouk nan zantray Ayiti" (The misfortune of a village inside Haiti), a poem by Moriso Laza (published in Haïti Progrès ). I am talking about "rhetoric" in this section and I wanted to come up with some illustrations by using some poems. When a poet is writing, many times he can use a metaphoric language, a language that is filled with images. The poet doesn't need to say clearly what he wants to communicate, but he creates a language to say it and this language is not a regular one to interpret or to easily guess what he has in mind. I must also say that it is a style used when one is writing, particularly fiction. This is a way one can manipulate the language.

E. Le Phare : Well, as the time is already up, Védrine, it was a pleasure for us to sit down with you to discuss a little bit about Gramè Kreyòl Védrine . We want to say to everyone who was listening goodbye, we will be back next week for another emission.

(end of interview)

(Translation: Emmanuel W. Védrine; Editing: Marilyn Mason)

© E. W. Védrine, 2002

Emmanuel W. Védrine
P.O.B. 255962
Dorchester, MA 02125-5110 (U.S),